#anti jancy

[thestobingirlie]

you know what i think is so interesting about the “only love makes you that crazy dear” scene is that it actually perfectly encapsulates jancy’s relationship, but not in the romantic way some people take it and the way it was (i assume) intended.

because jonathan wasn’t acting out of love for nancy when he fought steve. he was acting out of love for will.

nancy getting slutshamed? jonathan wants to leave. steve insults him? jonathan wants to leave. steve insults his mother? will? jonathan goes berserk.

because ultimately the most important person to him will always be will. nancy and her feelings and dreams and desires will always come second to jonathan’s family.

and that’s perfectly summed up by some old lady that knows nothing about the situation. love does make jonathan go crazy. but not love for nancy.

[stonathandreamer]

Regarding the Duffers' "hate" of Jonathan...

(Warnings: this post is an absolute maelstrom of emotions. It contains mild "anti Stancy," "anti Jancy," and "anti Nancy." Keep in mind that these are my personal opinions on the matter. Don't bother trying to make me change my mind, you'll just be losing your time. Haters will be blocked. Also, it's super long, like, Avengers: Edgame movie length long.)

I don’t think they hate him. How can you hate a character YOU created? Nah, it's ridiculous, even for their own ridiculous standards.

If they truly hated Jonathan, the Dumbers would have gotten rid of him in Season 3 or Season 2, giving some lame excuse like, "Oh, he graduated early and went to college," or they would have just killed him off. Jonathan's not a popular character, so the majority of people wouldn't care if he just disappeared.

No, they don't hate him. It's something else. Namely, fan service and bad writing.

I think fame went to their heads after Season 1 (remember, people didn't have faith that Stranger Things would be a hit back in 2016. David Harbour even said he thought the show would flop horribly), so I believe the Dumbers are trying really hard to appease the fans and keep their show popular. Now more than ever, considering they apparently want to create a Stranger Things Cinematic Universe with God knows how many spin-offs.

Looking back, some events from the series do seem like fan service, with the Dumbers wanting to appease the louder groups of the fandom. Billy's "redemption arc" seemed like an attempt to satisfy his fans—remember, the character of Billy was what Steve was supposed to be: a violent, abusive, and irredeemable jock who would be killed by the Monster. Irredeemable. And yet, they tried to redeem him. Steve's feelings for Nancy apparently returning in S4 also seem to be fan service to me, given that the fandom loves him over Jonathan, and Stancy shippers are more vocal than Jancy shippers.

Another contributing factor is bad writing. The Dumbers aren't great writers. They really aren't.

No one is perfect, I know, and we all have different opinions about everything, BUT they did Jonathan wrong ever since S1. That scene—yep, that one you're thinking about—permanently ruined his reputation in the fandom. It's the one thing his haters always bring up, and it's all the Dumbers' fault. How do you make the series protagonist, the supposed hero, do such a shitty thing?! It's bad writing, and it's something the Jonathan haters, the extremist Stancy defenders, and extremist Steve defenders always use against him. Funny, because they apparently forgave the "Nancy the Slut Wheeler" graffiti thing so quickly... 🤔 (or forgot? Or just act like it never happened?). Like, yeah, the girl's boyfriend and his friends called a teenage girl a slut, painted it on a wall for the whole town to see, but hey, everyone makes mistakes, right?

Two wrongs don't make a right, but Steve's actions fit his then-S1 persona, a.k.a. the season's teenage antagonist. Jonathan's actions don’t fit his role as the protagonist, the good guy, the supposed hero. The Dumbers just needed to move the plot, and the only thing they could come up with was to make Jonathan take those pictures. They made the protagonist (Jonathan) look bad and the antagonist (Steve) look good.

By doing so, Jonathan's popularity was doomed to decline, and when Steve became the good guy in Season 2, the fandom found their "Big Brother character," the kind, caring, and protective guy who always takes care of the kids—something the Dumbers seem to have taken a liking to, given how often they provide "Babysitter Steve" content to the fandom. While Jonathan, the actual kind, caring, and protective big brother, gets sidelined constantly. Painfully and criminally sidelined.

(Keep in mind that Jonathan has known those kids for years! He has known Mike, Lucas, and Dustin for years because they are his little brother's friends. Steve has known them for what? Two years?)

In this fandom, Steve's fans are more vocal, since they outnumber Jonathan's fans, and the Dumbers know that. They know how loved Steve is, which is why Steve's screen time increased in each season (S1: 23 minutes, S2: 33 minutes, S3: 45 minutes, S4: 78 minutes), while Jonathan's screen time DECREASED SEVERELY (S1: 57 minutes, S2: 32 minutes, S3: 27 minutes, S4: 59 minutes), and is doomed to continue that way in S5, apparently.

Fanon!Steve is Canon!Jonathan - or what Canon!Jonathan used to be.

Seeing Jonathan's popularity decrease, the Dumbers decided it wouldn't be worth focusing on him anymore since the majority of the fandom doesn't care about him. They decided to focus on other characters instead, which contributed even more to Jonathan's downfall.

Season 3 did him dirty. I don't like how he was treated there, how they made him seem to be in the wrong in his argument with his girlfriend, despite having valid points, how he was reduced into being Nancy's sidekick, having to put up with her shit while his own concerns (his need for money to help his family pay the bills) were invalidated. But Season 4 was his all-time low. Pretty much everything that defines Jonathan as a character vanished completely—his passion for photography, his love for music, his protectiveness of his family, his childhood dream of going to NYU, and even his car. Everything, gone. Yes, he and Will have a nice heart-to-heart talk that maybe made me sob, but keep in mind Jonathan still ignored Will for a while, something his past self would never do.

(Remember, every time something happened to Will, Jonathan always blamed himself for "not being there for him.")

Jonathan had everything to be a fan favorite: the kind heart and soul, the care for others, the love for his family, the selflessness, but he had the misfortune of having the Duffer Brothers as writers, who threw him under the bus and never bothered to call 911 after that.

They erased him almost entirely from the show, reducing him, a main character who's been around since Season 1, to a side character.

People say Jonathan's not interesting, that his plot line is boring, that he's not important, some even go as far as to offend his appearence, with offenses ranging from "he's ugly af" to "he looks like a crack addict". There's a human behind that character, and his name is Charles Ross Heaton. When you call Jonathan those things, you're not offending Jonathan Byers, the Stranger Things character, you're offending Charlie Heaton, the actor of Stranger Things behind the character of Jonathan Byers.

You have every right in the universe to find someone attractive or not—everyone has their preferences. I personally think Charlie is a handsome and good-looking fella (if only he quit the 🚬. Sorry, but I am concerned parent sometimes and I also have a natural aversion to that, because my respiratory system is super sensible to strong smells, especially of smoke, and even seeing one makes me uneasy). You don't find Jonathan (actually, Charlie) good-looking? It's your opinion and you're entitled to it 👍🏻. You don't find Jonathan (actually, Charlie) good-looking and called him a "crack looking addict," "a druggie," "someone who's clearly high on something all the time," or "an Elon Musk lookalike"? There's a line, buddy, and you just crossed it. You're being offensive, disrespectful, a jerk, and, above all, a motherfucking piece of shit and a waste of precious oxygen 🖕🏻.

Jonathan had so much potential.

He and Steve could have been friends (yes, I am making this about Stonathan; deal with it), since it was Jonathan who gave Steve the "wake-up call" (when Steve bad-mouthed his mom and brother, and Jonathan gave him a beating). It was Steve who bought him his new camera. And yet, these things are never properly acknowledged by the characters. Jonathan could have been such a good big brother to El when they were living in Cali, but the Dumbers thought "nah, weed is better for him." Their time in Cali could have strengthened the Byers siblings relationship, since now they're all going to the same school and are all teens. They could open up to each other, let out their frustrations, and ask for advice. Imagine a scene where Jonathan, Will, and El are all sitting in his room and are just talking about life, school, the future, goofing off like siblings. but nooooooooooo. Let's throw Jonathan into a dark corner and leave him there!

I fear for Jonathan's life in S5? Yes. Will he actually die? Hardly (IMO). A character's death is meant to impact both the other characters and the fandom, and while Jonathan's death would destroy the Byers completely, the fandom wouldn't care (some would even cheer and say "yay, now Steve can go back to his ex-girlfriend who was terrible to him and he was terrible to her and they can revive their terrible relationship and live terribly ever after!").

Jonathan is a character I relate to a lot; the loner freak with no friends who has to help his family stay afloat. I see Jonathan struggling with life and I think, "Fuck, this sounds familiar... Oh, wait." I see Jonathan being bashed and bullied by the fandom and I think how much these people would actually bully him IRL.

Stranger Things is a story where the freaks, the nerds, the geeks, and the losers win, and yet Jonathan doesn't seem to be having many wins for himself (and yes, I'm writing these final paragraphs while some tears threaten to spill). He's constantly sidelined and forgotten. Forgotten by the writers, by other characters, by Netflix, and even by the fandom.

Jonathan is my comfort character. I see a lot of myself in him and I wish the writers would have treated him better so that I could have looked at him and thought, "Fuck... We actually won." But alas, I fear this won't happen.

I fear Jonathan's story will continue to be the way it is and end with him being a sidelined guy people will quickly forget once the show ends. But I won't.

I will never forget Jonathan Byers.

I wish I could be alive for when Stranger Things fall into public domain, so that I could correct the mistakes they made to Jonathan and give the Dumber Brothers a big "FUCK YOU!"

Jonathan Byers deserves better. And so does Charlie Heaton, who also falls victim to constant sidelining.

JUSTICE FOR JONATHAN BYERS ✊🏻!

JUSTICE FOR CHARLIE HEATON ✊🏻!

And now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go cry in the shower for a day or two.

[alwaysthequietones]

[ilovetwig]

I always think it's funny that people call Nancy dating Steve "forced conformity" because that's literally the first time we see Nancy doing something that SHE wants to do. Without anyone else telling her what to do. Like she's so excited about it, but she's also worried what people are going to think since people view her a certain way and by dating Steve, it goes against the image that people have of her. So she tries to hide the relationship and hide that part of herself from the world. But being with Steve is something SHE still wants to do!!

The real forced conformity is when she starts dating j*n because that is so much more aligned with what people expected from her. It's also because a lot of other people TOLD her to be with him because it's what THEY wanted to see from her. Honestly, why do you think she puts up with so much of the stuff that j*n does to her...she's literally trying to make things work because she thinks she has to make that relationship work since it's what OTHERS want from her.

[clarkegriffins]

do u ever stop to think about this whole love triangle discourse and end up laughing bc there shouldn't be a discourse to begin with? like one boy wants nancy in his life and says that she's the most important part and the other boy looks like he's two seconds away from being put out of his misery because of his relationship with nancy to the point he's ghosting her and she thinks he's cheating. also do u ever think about how both of these boys talks about nancy? how they describe her? and the reasons they love her? how they see her?

first we have jonathan saying this:

first of all, i love his lack of energy go girl give us nothing (why he looks like he wants to d word, ur literally talking about ur girlfriend 😭) so, that's him saying all the reasons he loves her, and ofc we know that nancy is like that but why he's talking about her work ethic and not about her, like u should all read this post about how much nancy cares about other people and how being a reporter allows her to listen to other people's stories and help them, but jonathan only talks about that, work work work, how she behaves in work, how she is ambitious at work which we know she is, that's not a bad thing at all, i love how determined she is, how she works hard for that, it's actually one of my favorite traits of nancy, but i don't see people (and jonathan) talking about what drives that ambition forward which is helping other people, now going back to jonathan's speech which is even more ridiculous when we watched s3, because according to him he loves how hardworking nancy is, and yet:

wait a second, drop the story? i thought you loved how she's never done a single thing halfway in her life? and then:

anyways, that doesn't sound like someone who loves all these things he listed in season 4, now moving forward to steve, i was talking before how jonathan only said things about nancy's work ethic and not about her and what drives her forward but can u believe that steve does that? and not the fully developed steve in season 4, no, the s1 steve, the one who still messed up from time to time

i think it's very refreshing to see someone describing nancy and acknowledging how caring she can be, how she worries about other people, how she wants to help people, and he sees that, and this isn't even a big speech bc good knows narrative wasn't at their side in s1-s2, it's just crazy to me how there's scenes of nancy being there for jonathan in awful times (when will was being possessed, she held his hand, she was there, and yet not a single thing about that, about how much she's caring and protective) it's just sad bc do u see how she describes him? "caring, compassionate, protective, never back down from what's right (only when he wants to lie to her countless times i guess)" how could he not do the same for her? THE nancy wheeler who stood in front of A CAR to protect him and her friends when billy was about to crush her, and you know this isn't just an issue with jonathan, i feel like this is an issue with the fandom too, i feel like the fandom only seems to care about that side of nancy, like her career is the only thing she cares about and nothing more, and that's just isn't nancy wheeler, but then again, she's one of the characters people misunderstand the most in st (just like her brother, i guess is the wheeler's curse) we have 14 year old mike wheeler listing how much he loves el on her bad days, on her good days, with her powers, without her power, for exactly who she is, and all jonathan can say about his girlfriend is "she works 👍"

[repcrux]

lmaooo calling steve toxic and giving barb as a reason is so hilarious. are you fucking serious rn. did he fucking killed barb? NO.

he apologized for his mistakes,( which there is only ONE),he made it up to them and he's been saving their asses for YEARS now and you are still talking about it.

yet all those things the others did ( and never even acknowledge that they are wrong) are slipped under a rug, and they are declared as saints.

i strongly suggest a rewatch and kindly leave steve the fuck alone.

[mynonclicheblog]

Nancy being targeted by the show's big bad specifically because she has unresolved trauma... the same trauma that's remained untouched and inert throughout her onscreen relationship with Jonathan... the same trauma that inherently links her to Steve, whom she's been growing closer to again, whom she's beginning to see in a warm, hopeful, renewed light... the same trauma she will presumably need to face in season 5 before taking down Vecna...

...and people still think J is the right choice? Like, narratively?

[palm-tree-21]

both jancy and stancy suck ass I need my poor girl Nancy to get the hell away from Hawkins as fast as she can because the writers are going to ruin her

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

Oh, look, Rueleigh's rambling again. It's me, I'm Rueleigh. *spins in chair* I'm just super hyperfixated on Jonathan's character and why the Duffle bags write him the way they do.

Jancy always paralleled Lonnie and Joyce. (Though I think about Stoncy sometimes, I really don't think they would work past being a fling.) I think they wanted to explore Jonathan being like Lonnie, then realizing it and turning it around, but because of the whole only a handful of episodes, they didn't have time to explore it further. I do think that if Jonathan stays with Nancy, he will turn into Lonnie. Lonnie was defensive of his actions, of using Will's death to get money, and in the scene with Nancy, Jonathan was defensive of his actions with the camera. Instead of owning up to it, they both turned it around on the other person. I hope they do break up, and it makes Jonathan realize that some of his actions were that of his dad's. And I think that would be an interesting thing to explore, if they had the time. BRING BACK TWENTY EPISODES A SEASON (is there a petition?)

[findafight]

In my on going journey to find a fic where Jonathan and Nancy at least talk through if not fight about how Jonathan has been treating and lying to her, and the way she was looking at/flirting with Steve in s4 I have found that, with the majority of these few fics, Jonathan’s choice to not tell Nancy is framed as him being noble or making a sacrifice for her. That he is breaking up with her to avoid making her miserable.

This is fascinating to me because while I now think they should for sure break up, I went into st4 pretty neutral on jancy, and thought everything Jonathan was saying was cowardly. I think HE thinks he’s making some noble sacrifice for Nancy’s sake, but he is not letting Nancy know about it nor is he letting her decide what she wants (to stay with him or to breakup) based on the actual facts of what Jonathan is doing/will go for college. He’s just. Letting her wonder why he’s being avoidant and distant, worrying about weather he loves her still (which is partly why her eyes wonder in s4).

Jonathan isn’t breaking up with her. The whole point of his rant to argyle is that he ISN’T breaking up with Nancy. He’s avoiding her so he doesn’t “trap” her. He’s already lied to her about applying to the university she thinks they’re going to together and so he barely talks to her and starts they are in a “slow-mo breakup”. It seems like he is avoiding talking to her in the twisted hope that she breaks up with him, because he cannot bear to do it. He’s already trapping her in this relationship he’s so terrified of.

Nancy does not know what is going on in his head. All she knows is her boyfriend is avoiding her. Cancelling plans or calls. To the point where she thinks there is a possibility (however small) he might be cheating on her. That’s not a good place for a relationship to be! Why would she think what he has done is admirable and self sacrificial when she has been suffering due to his actions and choices and the assumptions he’s made about their relationship and future without asking her? Why would she feel he did what he thought was right when she has been kept in the dark and lied to, openly, and mislead about their supposed shared future plans? When he was too nervous to talk to her plainly about his worries and fears so instead let them dictate how he treated her.

Jonathan cannot be open and honest to Nancy because of his fears, but also because of that same fear he doesn’t rip the bandaid off. He cannot be the one to breakup with Nancy because if he is, he is definitely the bad guy. If he breaks up with her, he shatters any semblance of the idea that he is in the right, that he is making a sacrifice by not letting Nancy hypothetically make one. And he doesn’t want to examine himself or his actions that would make it abundantly clear what he’s done wrong.

By forcing Nancy into a position where she is unsure of the strength of their relationship, where she doesn’t have all the information to actually make the decision about the future he assumes she will make (that she is actually unlikely to make) he is doing what he fears he would be if he was honest about college. Trapping her in a relationship where they eventually grow to resent each other.

And idk. Im honestly surprised this isn’t a more widespread assumption? That Jonathan is being cowardly for lying? But it isn’t? Posing Jonathan refusing to communicate with his girlfriend as noble while she has actively questioned his loyalty to her, seems kind of cruel to Nancy. Sure maybe she hasn’t communicated enough to him, but has he let her? He is making these assumptions and decisions that impact their future together and he doesn’t discuss it with her because he doesn’t want to ruin her life (or, more likely, either remain in a LDR or get broken up with, the latter seeming more likely every day he lies.) That seems cowardly to me.

[gamma-ghoul]

I'm so tempted to do a meta-analysis on how Stancy and Byler actually do parallel each other.

I found a scene in season one that does this when Mike and Nancy talk about El.

Nancy thought Mike was acting weird because of Will, and Mike thought Nancy was acting weird because of Steve.

And then they ask each other if they like Jonathan or El now, and then the two deny it.

And then by the end of season 2 both Mileven and Jancy are canon.

And then, in season 4, Mileven and Jancy start to have issues in their respective relationships and an alternative starts to creep up...

Honestly, though, you can find narrative parallels all over the series to support whatever ship you like.

[huntingpeople-savingsam]

So I know I’ve made a bunch of points already but this one just occurred to me. At the end of season 1 (mentioned by Nancy is season 2) after the teens fight the Demogorgan, Nancy says she waits for Jonathan, and when he doesn’t give any indication she should be, Steve is there and they reconcile and get back together.

Now something about that I didn’t notice back when I first saw season 2 and am really putting together now— Jonathan is annoyed that Nancy didn’t wait for him when he needed time with his family after Will was saved. And it’s understandable that the Byers needed time after all that they went through in season 1, but Jonathan is annoyed with Nancy when she tells him she waited for him, “Yeah, like a month.” Meanwhile….. Nancy lost and is still mourning Barb! And Jonathan doesn’t acknowledge that at all when he complains about Nancy not waiting longer before getting back together with Steve.

But Steve was there for Nancy as much as he could be after they reconciled with Barb’s death. He obviously messed up by being unwilling to break the NDA they signed to tell the Hollands what happened to Barb and from Nancy’s perspective and place in mourning feels unsupported by him because of this but let’s rewind a little.

What we are left to infer between seasons 1 and 2 is:

Nancy AND Steve are having regular dinners with the Hollands

Although Steve is somewhat reluctant, he still goes and is a polite and pleasant dinner guest

Nancy and Steve seemed to have an overall good relationship until the anniversary of Barb’s death was creeping up

They were planning couples costumes, going to dinner with the Hollands, Steve spends Christmas at the Wheelers house, they drive to school together, Nancy has been helping Steve with his admissions essay, they’ve been talking about their future, etc.

And when I was thinking about all that they’d done together after season 1, I considered how it might’ve gone if Jon was in Steve’s place.

Would he have gone to regular dinners with the Hollands? Would he have wanted to expose the Lab and everything with the Upside Down if Will hadn’t gotten pulled back in?

Just how annoyed he was when he said she only waited a month for him— while he was reconciling with his lost brother…. And Nancy and the Hollands were still mourning Barb who had died?

I’m not faulting Jonathan for needing time with his family after everything that happened, of course he did.

And I’m not saying Steve was #1 Boyfriend of the year just because he went to dinner at the Hollands' with Nancy

But I am saying that Jon gave next to no thought about how badly Nancy was doing after they fought the Demogorgan in season 1. And while she was mourning and needed someone by her side to face the Hollands and lie to them while mourning with them, Steve was there while Jon wasn’t and I think Jon probably wouldn’t have been if Nance had waited longer for him.

It’s a theme you see throughout this show, a little bit before but especially after Nancy finally blows up and gives Steve the “thump on his head” that he later thanks her for— Steve is there, Jon isn’t.

[your-stranger-halfblood-things]

Steve: Third base is letting you bring me to the hospital when I have a concussion

Eddie:

Steve:

Robin: So you've never done third base? Ha

Eddie: HOW MANY CONCUSSIONS HAVE YOU HAD?

Steve:

Robin:

Jonathan: Third base for me is talking about my dad...

Nancy: So we...? Oh god no, I'm lesbian

Jonathan: Thanks

Argyle: Third base is if I tell you my secrets for my hair

Steve, blushing: You told me them before

Argyle *winks*

Nancy: Third base is letting you into my room and letting you look around

Robin: You let me do that!!

Nancy: No I didn't! You just did it without permission

Robin, shrugging: Anyways, third base for me is like probably me letting you pick my outfit

Nancy:

Nancy, blushing: Fuck you

Eddie: Third base is letting you touch my guitar

Steve: You don't even let me within five feet of it

Eddie: You're a clumsy man! I don't want you to hurt her!

[ilovetwig]

It's so hot when men apologize for their mistakes without needing to be told and take accountability and don't make snarky comments or excuses in their apology and try to make things right and realize they shouldn't repeat the same mistakes. This is actually what makes Steve and Eddie so hot.

[clarkegriffins]

so, i think since s4 came out i saw maaaaaaaaaaaaaany posts saying nancy AND steve shouldn't be in a relationship, and i'm not gonna talk about that right now bc it's not my point, what is curious to me is that i never saw a post saying that jonathan shouldn't be in a relationship, and it got me thinking, does the fandom even listen to jonathan? like at all?

so in season 1 we have this scene:

which was supposed to "represent" stancy back then, even tho it's just assumptions since we never got the idea that stancy would ever be like ted and karen, they might had their problems back in season 1 and season 2 but not to the point that we think they would turn into nancy's parents, the show has been showing us how much steve loves nancy and that he would do literally anything for her, even breaking his own heart and letting her go, so no, not ted and karen at all, but i'm getting off topic let's go back to jonathan, this is what he thinks about nancy and steve's relationship, not very positive right? he scares her into thinking she's going to end up like her mom and how unhappy she will become.

and now we have this scene, present day:

now we're talking about his relationship with nancy, and oops, not very optimistic either right? this is basically what jonathan thinks of relationships, that no matter what they are always doomed, and how someone who thinks like that can be ready for a relationship? and i'm not even mentioning his thoughts about bob/joyce, his constant judgment over their relationship even tho bob was good for joyce, jonathan's beliefs about relationships are very tragic, i think not only about relationships, but life too, which leads to my second question: what can jonathan offer nancy? like really? i'm not talking about career or anything i'm talking about partnership, he's been ghosting nancy for a while now

to the point that she's considering he is cheating on her

just because he's too scared of telling her the truth, and i see people like: oh but he's protecting her bc just like he said "she would drop EVERYTHING to be with him" and i'm sorry but him assuming that she would leave her dream college for him is a bit too much for me, and it's crazy how no one talks about that, like nancy wheeler, our ambitious nancy wheeler, would literally drop her dreams just because jonathan is going to a different college? and no one from the fandom thinks it's a bit pretentious for jonathan to assume that? this is just an excuse for not telling her the truth, because if he told her the truth, it would lead him to also say what he thinks about their future together, which, in his opinion, is not a very bright future

and look at this, he also talks about kids and marriage, but for him it would end in a disaster, an unhappy marriage, just like ted and karen, totally different from what we saw in steve's dreams (a family with love, affection, who really enjoy each other's company, seeing the world with them, which, i think, it suits nancy traveling a lot since she wants to be a journalist) but this isn't about him, it's about jonathan, i see many people trying to say "oh but it's the trauma talking ok?" and yeah i could buy that, but i don't think trauma should excuse everything, so like nancy will have to spent her entire life fixing him? changing him? i think if u really want to be with someone you should fight for that, but that doesn't seem to be in jonathan's plans, right?

so again: how is he ready to be in a relationship? i think before anything jonathan should heal, this is what s5 should offer him.

[vanesawye]

great critique of season 3 jancy by jexonite